TRANSCRIPT OF THE PRIME MINISTER
THE HON JOHN HOWARD MP
TELEVISION INTERVIEW WITH BARRIE CASSIDY
INSIDERS, ABC
2 September 2001
JOURNALIST:
Good morning Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good morning Barrie.
JOURNALIST:
Can you, are you confident that you can safely take these people from one ship to another and then move them on to Nauru and New Zealand?
PRIME MINISTER:
Yes I am and I am encouraged by advice I received this morning that the reaction of the people on the Tampa when being informed of the arrangements that we had negotiated with Nauru and New Zealand was fairly positive. I think they probably recognise that we are concerned and others are concerned to deal with this matter in a fair and decent way. I am confident that it can be done safely. Obviously if they cooperate that makes it that much easier and the initial signs are that they will work closely with the people and what we have in mind is that there will be from perhaps today an involvement amongst the group of the International Organisation for Migration and the United Nations refugee organisation so that the process of determining claims and sorting all that out can commence virtually immediately. We want to get them off the ship as soon as possible and we want the process of trans-shipment to New Zealand and Nauru to begin as soon as humanly possible and I am very confident that that can be done safely.
JOURNALIST:
How do you actually physically get them from one ship to another at sea?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I am not a naval expert. I’ll leave that to the experts but I have every confidence in the ADF. They have done these sorts of things and more difficult things than this before and I’ve got absolute confidence in their capacity to do it. I don’t think that’s the problem. The problem was to negotiate an arrangement and can I express on my behalf and I know on behalf of the people of Australia my gratitude to both New Zealand and Nauru. Can I say to Helen Clark I appreciate very much the stance that she has taken on this. I am very proud of the fact that I have had a very good relationship with her as Prime Minister of New Zealand. I have worked very closely with successive Prime Ministers of New Zealand in the five and a half years I have been Prime Minister and New Zealand has demonstrated that she is Australia’s best friend in so many ways and I appreciate it very much. That’s what good friends do in difficult circumstances and can I also say to Rene Harris, the President of Nauru, that I appreciate very much the cooperation that his tiny island state is extending. This is a Pacific solution and I think that is very good.
JOURNALIST:
A United Nations spokesman overnight disagreed. He said that still the most logical, the most humane thing to do is to take them on to Christmas Island first. Does he miss the point of the symbolism involved here?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I think he also perhaps doesn’t understand the legal situation. Or perhaps he does, I don’t know. But from the very beginning we have said they can’t come onto Australian land territory and they can’t be processed in Australia. I don’t believe that what we are proposing is inhumane. If we had been able to you know…. as soon as we can negotiate their transfer, get them onto the ships and away to Nauru and New Zealand the better.
JOURNALIST:
Prime minister, how does it look in the international community for Australia to turn these people away and then a tiny country, the smallest republic in the world like Nauru agrees to take them on?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well you have got to see it in the context of what we already do. Australia is the second most generous country in the world per capita in taking refugees. Second only to Canada. We have a terrific record but we face a situation because we are an island continent and because of our proximity to the Indonesian archipelago that we are seen as almost a soft touch, a country of easy destination. I mean obviously we have to in the medium to longer term try and negotiate an arrangement with Indonesia but that is not going to be easy. I mean it’s easy for political opponents of mine to say well just fix it up with Indonesia and everything’s right. I mean that is very difficult. You have a new government in Indonesia and everyone knows that for the last couple of years our relationship with Indonesia was difficult because of the correct stance we took over East Timor and it is really demanding the impossible and the unreasonable to have said that somehow or other over the last two years in the backwash of all of that we should have negotiated some understanding with Indonesia. We have been pressing very strongly to do that. I had quite extensive discussions about it in Jakarta when I was there a couple of weeks ago and I am sending a ministerial mission in the next few days to talk further about it but in the end Indonesia is like us a sovereign nation and she has to be persuaded and we would like to get an arrangement with Indonesia and I hope we can but nobody should imagine that’s easy and anybody who suggests it’s easy is just saying that from the vantage point of not having to deliver it.
JOURNALIST:
But there was an impression after your most recent visit to Indonesia that all of this had at least been papered over. But clearly not. There’s still a lot of wounds to heal.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I went to great length Barry when I went to Indonesia to talk about having a more realistic relationship. I mean we had this so-called special relationship with Indonesia for years and it didn’t prevent what occurred over East Timor so I think we have to be realistic about our expectations. I think we can build a good relationship with Indonesia. We have put a lot of time into it but you have to have a reciprocity of attitude on things like that and it will take time.
JOURNALIST:
Now Prime Minister the increased surveillance you have already announced, what will that involve and precisely what will these patrol boats be doing?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, essentially what I said yesterday. It’s going to involve five naval vessels and four P-3 Orion aircraft. It’s an increased surveillance operation. It is designed to deter. I can’t guarantee that no more boats are going to come to Australia. It would be absurd of me to try and do that but we are going to try and increase the surveillance, quite intensively so and it’s designed to deter and I believe it will have some impact but this is an extraordinarily difficult situation and nobody has the simple easy answer to it. Obviously if people didn’t come there wouldn’t be a problem. I think the combination of what we have done over the Tampa and also the surveillance increase, that collectively could act as a deterrent. It is certainly focussing the attention of the world on the issue and it may further engage international organisations and other countries to try and find a solution. But nobody should imagine that it is going to be easy and nobody should think that because of that increased surveillance we are going to stop all boats coming to Australia. I am not holding that out but I am hoping that the increased surveillance will act as a very strong deterrent.
JOURNALIST:
And how does it work, do these people actually board these vessels when they find them and then turn them around and send them back?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well there are a variety of things they can do, I mean I am not going to go into the detail of that. I don’t think that’s appropriate. All I can say is that as always Australia will behave both lawfully and decently.
JOURNALIST:
Prime minister, East Timor was raised as a possibility at one stage. When all things settle down in East Timor and they have a government in place, is there some value given the strategic location of East Timor in setting up a permanent refugee camp there, apart from anything else providing employment for East Timorese?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well I don’t rule anything out, I have to say that’s not something we have given any serious thought to. East Timor was factored in as a possible trans-shipment point and also at one stage just a temporary processing centre and as far as trans-shipment is concerned there are a number of options around in that and we are still looking at them and whatever is the most effective and practical will be the one that’s employed. I haven’t thought about East Timor as something long term. I guess like everything else that can be taken on board but that’s a tiny country with a lot of things ahead of it. But we have a great deal of goodwill towards East Timor and we are obviously going to be the principle source of assistance to East Timor for a long time into the future so we have quite an interest in what happens there.
JOURNALIST:
And finally Prime Minister if I can clear up one point. The Norwegian government says that when the Norwegian Ambassador was on board the ship he was handed a letter from these people seeking asylum in Australia. That letter was handed on to the foreign affairs department. At that point, are we not obliged to process these people in Australia?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, not according to my advice. My advice is that these people remain foreign nationals in Australian territorial waters. That is not my advice. I mean our advice all along has been that these people are foreign nationals without authorisation in Australian territorial waters. I don’t accept what you have just said or the view of the Norwegian government for one moment.
JOURNALIST:
OK Prime Minister, thank you very much for your time this morning.
PRIME MINISTER:
You’re welcome.
END
