TRANSCRIPT OF THE PRIME MINISTER
THE HON JOHN HOWARD MP
RADIO INTERVIEW WITH LIAM BARTLETT,
RADIO 6WF, Perth

7 March 2001

BARTLETT: Prime Minister, good morning.

PRIME MINISTER: Good morning.

BARTLETT: Nice to talk to you, thanks for joining us.

PRIME MINISTER: It’s a pleasure.

BARTLETT: Why do you think the Government is so badly on the nose?

PRIME MINISTER: I don’t think you can ever give a total picture of that and…but I’m not surprised at that poll. I said a few weeks ago that we were going to have some bad polls. I’ve read it, don’t like it, have to be realistic enough to accept that it reflects current views people have. Those views can change. They can change fairly rapidly. That particular poll has had the Government consistently behind for about three years - other polls have had us ahead or behind. But right at the moment, no matter what poll you take, the Government would be behind. Now, I acknowledge that and my responsibility as head of the government is to continue to govern well, not to give regular political commentaries, I’ll leave that to other people. And, in the end, like every other Prime Minister I’m accountable to the Australian people at the election and the election is due towards the end of the year.
But we’ve had some difficult issues. There have been a number of hot spots in the community – concern over petrol prices, some of the small business concerns over the Business Activity Statement. And, inevitably, when you are a government that is a reformist government that brings about changes there can be some transitional impacts.

BARTLETT: Can we talk about…

PRIME MINISTER: And once they pass then things get better. But, I mean, in the end, my responsibility is to try and deliver good government. I’ll go on doing that. I take the view that it’s my responsibility and my duty to listen to legitimate areas of public concern and try and adjust policy to remove difficulty for citizens. And, in the process of doing that, I’ve got to preserve the long-term policy benefits this Government has been responsible for over the last five years. But we’re obviously in a difficult political position at the moment. I will work my way through that with my colleagues.

BARTLETT: Let’s talk about the other significant figures for you this morning. The national figures – Australia’s economy recording its first period of negative economic growth since the recession of the early 1990s, since 1991, the first contraction since 1991. How do you respond to that?

PRIME MINISTER: Well, that’s disappointing and I’m certainly very sorry it happened. We have to get it in perspective though. A setback in one quarter does not destroy five years of growth and strength and progress. A setback in one quarter does not destroy five years of growth and strength and progress.

BARTLETT: No but, Prime Minister, contributing to the fall was a big drop in construction and manufacturing activity, does that tell you the engine room has started to slow down?

PRIME MINISTER: It tells me that particularly in the dwelling sector there was a contraction. And there’s no doubt that the introduction of the new taxation system encouraged home building to be accelerated before the 1st of July last year. And it was running at a very high level before then anyway and there has been, inevitably, a drop off since then. The good news, going beyond the December quarter national accounts, is that in January and February there have been signs of a pick up in home building. And the two interest rate cuts we’ve had in the last few weeks, the half a percent in February, the quarter percent this morning, they will act as a stimulus to the home building industry. So, yes, there were some transitional effects. We acknowledge that but, once again, we have to keep it in perspective. And I go back to my point that a setback in one quarter does not destroy five years of growth and strength and progress.

BARTLETT: Prime Minister, just coming back to this whole question about the issues of the past couple of weeks. It’s been talked about long and loud and I don’t want to go back in any detail but it’s been variously described as you know as backflips, as U-turns, as about faces, that sort of thing. Is there any aspect of any of your policies that are not reversible?

PRIME MINISTER: Oh, of course. We’re not going to start believing that you can, as an economy, spend beyond your means. But you say, is there any aspect of my policies that are not reversible, the implication behind that is that we’ve reversed everything.

BARTLETT: Well, is there anything you would never change your mind about?

PRIME MINISTER: Well, a lot of things I’d…I’d never change my mind about the need to run a fiscally prudent government. I’d never change my mind about the need, the long-term need for tax reform, which we’ve implemented. I’d never change my mind about the fact that we need a freer and better industrial relations system which will be at threat if you have Labor governments not only at a State level but at a Federal level. There’s a whole raft of things. But in politics sensible political leadership is about being strong but not stubborn. It’s about sticking to things that are of fundamental worth and fundamentally positive for the country but also being flexible enough to recognise that on occasions you have to acknowledge that you may have made a wrong judgement and you need to shift. Now, that applied in relation to petrol.

BARTLETT: You call it flexibility, some people call it reactionary.

PRIME MINISTER: Well, you know, I can’t help that. People are entitled to call it whatever they…you’re asking me to answer the question, I mean, somebody else in your studio will answer it differently. But you’re asking me to describe how I balance these things up. I mean, I don’t think Australians want a Prime Minister who’s never willing to shift on anything. But, equally, they don’t want a Prime Minister who is so weak that he’s not prepared to cop criticism over a long period of time in relation to something in which he fundamentally believes.

BARTLETT: Very true. Let me put it another way to you.

PRIME MINISTER: Yeah, well please do.

BARTLETT: It’s been written this morning that you’ve gone from a listening Government to a panicking Government, does that sound right?

PRIME MINISTER: No, I don’t agree with that. I mean, I don’t know who wrote that but I don’t agree with that description. But at the moment criticism of my Government is easy pickings because we’re going through a stage where it’s easy to criticise. I mean, when you’ve had a few setbacks in politics and the polls run against you and a few things go wrong, things happen that really are of not much significance but they’re magnified and they’re looked at through the prism of all of the other things. And it’s easy for people to take cheap shots at the Government and at me at the present time. I accept that.

BARTLETT: Well, there’s some hard facts too, isn’t there, I mean, it’s not just cheap shots?

PRIME MINISTER: Well, there are some hard facts, yes and, well, can we deal with those and I’ll try and answer them in a very candid fashion.

BARTLETT: All right, there’s also a report today that shows that your Government is the highest taxing Government in Australian history.

PRIME MINISTER: Well, I don’t agree with that report but I’m having it analysed. I mean, we, in fact, have cut taxes. We have cut taxes. I mean, I don’t know how we can be a high taxing, the highest taxing government when we’ve actually cut taxes. I mean, we cut taxes by, personal taxes, by $12 billion last year and were, in fact, criticised by Mr Beazley when we did so for overheating the economy. They, in fact, worked against those changes.

BARTLETT: The point is made that tax collections this year, including the GST, will reach something like 25.7% of GDP.

PRIME MINISTER: I’ve seen that report, the preliminary advice I have is that it doesn’t make an appropriate allowance in relation to the new tax adjustments with the States and I’m having that analysed to verify whether or not that proposition is correct.

BARTLETT: Prime Minister there is also a story going around about you reportedly tearing strips off Peter Costello for his handling of the BAS changes. Did you…

PRIME MINISTER: We have conversations about lots of things but you are referring in particular to a section of an article in The Bulletin. That particular part of the article is quite incorrect.

BARTLETT: So you didn’t tell your Deputy that he had to take control of his bureaucrats?

PRIME MINISTER: We have not had a conversation of that kind. We have many conversations but not one of that kind.

BARTLETT: A couple of months is a long time in Canberra isn’t it? It wasn’t so long ago, not long before Christmas that you were travelling pretty well and Peter Costello’s image was pretty well intact too. The wheels have come off now to the point where even a blue ribbon seat like Ryan is under threat.

PRIME MINISTER: Well we don’t take anything for granted. You do make a valid point though. Politics is very volatile. And if, as you say, it can move that much in a short period of time it’s equally possible that it can move again and again. That’s why you never sort of make absolute assumptions about what is going to happen. But we are going through a difficult challenging period, I know that and I’ve been around long enough to realise that but I also know that what the good things that we have done for Australia over the last five years are there. We have made a Australia a stronger, better, more respected country in that five year period. We have led it through the Asian economic downturn. Sure we’ve had a set back on the national accounts today, but one bad quarter, one setback in a quarter doesn’t destroy those five years of growth and strength and progress. So you’ve got to see it in perspective and I’ve been through this kind of thing before.

BARTLETT: Ok lets take some calls. James is the first caller. Hello James,

CALLER: Yeah g’day Liam. I’ve got a question for Johnny. Mr Prime Minister, why do you not have the ticker to tell Shell to piss off in wanting to buy Australia’s only great oil asset? Why have you not done that? And the other thing before you answer that why have you not done anything to tell the oil companies in general what that they are not gonna run rampant over Australian motorists, you’re allowing them…

BARTLETT: Alright, lets get an answer on that. Prime Minister would you like to respond?

PRIME MINISTER: Well James the application by Shell in relation to Woodside is being considered in the proper way and when that process of consideration is completed a decision will be made in accordance with the law by the Treasurer. I can’t say any more than that. I don’t have the liberty of making free wheeling comments because there are due processes that have to be followed. And the law has to be respected so that people who might be unhappy with this or that outcome, of things like this, don’t then have grounds to go to court and waste an enormous amount of tax payers and their money in trying to overturn decisions taken by Ministers. So I hear what you have to say, I’m very well aware of the issue. Without talking about Shell and Woodside, I do understand the concerns people have about this country not becoming an economic branch office. I do understand that. And as for the question of the oil companies and petrol prices, one of the things I announced last week was that we were going to give the ACCC a lot more powers of monitoring. I can assure you James that they will be used to the limit in relation to the oil companies. I don’t have any truck with multi-national companies or indeed any company that is insensitive to the interests of consumers, we also of course have to recognise that if you interfere too much in a market you can have disastrous supply consequences and you’ve got to strike a balance. But I’m certainly sympathetic to the view I think your expressing. In fact I think your view is unmistakable.

BARTLETT: I think you’re right. Prime Minister, Joanne joins us. Hello Joanne,

CALLER: Hello Liam. Thank you for having me on the show. Hello Mr Prime Minister.

PRIME MINISTER: How are you?

CALLER: Yeah, not too bad. Listen I’ve just driven from south of the river over to the north, it’s a very slow drive. I heard your initial comment about sorry, and before that we heard Alannah MacTiernan, say sorry. Look we’re sick of hearing people say sorry in political positions. Wake-up to it, do something constructive and make it fast. This country is really hurting.

BARTLETT: What sort of action do you have in mind Joanne?

CALLER: I’m not a politician, I’m just trying to tell the Prime Minister, and I have great respect for him, however he is not acting fast enough. Thank you.

PRIME MINISTER: Well Joanne, it’s hard without knowing those areas where you don’t think I’m acting fast enough to do other than respond in a very general way and say I’m not always saying sorry, in fact a lot of people criticise me for not saying it more often but that’s another matter. I am, in relation to the petrol decision I acknowledge an error of judgement there, a mistake. I’m not sorry in any way that I did that. I don’t make a habit of doing but equally I try and be realistic. I mean the Australian public expects realism from me. They expect me to try and tell it as it is and I endeavour to do that. I don’t think it’s a perfect government, but I think it’s a government that has strengthened Australia economically and in other ways quite a lot over the last five years and if had a better idea of the things that Joanne wanted me to change I’d be able to say whether I could or couldn’t. But without having particular ideas, it’s very hard.

BARTLETT: But there’s a bit of a danger isn’t there, of making that admittance, that you know ‘we’re not perfect’.

PRIME MINISTER: Well why …! .

BARTLETT: I mean Richard Court tried that over here a few weeks ago.

PRIME MINISTER: Beg your pardon?

BARTLETT: Richard Court tried that over here a few weeks ago.

PRIME MINISTER: Yes I know, well fair enough but if I asserted that I was you’d tear me to shreds, quite legitimately, I mean come on … you can’t you know, we can’t, let’s not waste time with those sort of, I think that’s just a waste of comment.

BARTLETT: Mark, good morning.

CALLER: Hello Liam. Hello Mr Prime Minister. My question is why does it take so long for the Reserve Bank to react to data or the government, react to economic data? I’ve been in business 22 years, the family company has been in business since 1931 this, when the Reserve Bank lifted interest rates to my way of thinking it was extremely foolish, Blind Freddy could see that the GST was slowing the economy down and I appreciate why GST was brought in, but for me things have been made worse by the Reserve Bank’s actions. And if you don’t like the last quarter’s figures, what till you see the next quarter’s.

PRIME MINISTER: Well can I make two comments about that? The first comment is that the Reserve Bank acts independently of the government in fixing interest rates and I think you probably understand that Mark but I just wanted to emphasise that point. I would have to say that there was an error of judgement in relation to some of the adjustments, yes.

BARTLETT: That made you happy Mark?

CALLER: Not particularly because I am hurting at the moment.

PRIME MINISTER: Look I understand that and I am very pleased, let me say, and I feel free to talk about adjustments that have been made, I am very pleased at the reductions that have occurred in interest rates over the past few weeks.

CALLER: Yes. It’s not just your government, I’ve seen it with other governments as well. It seems that that when the moguls over on the eastern seaboard decide that interest rates have to go up or down to me they seem to be reacting to data that is three to four months old. I look at what’s happening in business activity around, what’s actually happening around me at the time and I just scratch my head and I think yes but it was like that three months ago but it’s not like that now.

PRIME MINISTER: Are you finding conditions difficult at the moment?

CALLER: Well I am finding conditions worse than in the recession in the 1980s.

PRIME MINISTER: What sort of business are you in Mark?

CALLER: I am in manufacturing.

PRIME MINISTER: What sort of manufacturing?

CALLER: Oh, canvas goods, shade, horticultural products.

PRIME MINISTER: Yes. You’re really finding it very tough?

CALLER: Extremely.

PRIME MINISTER: Yes.

CALLER: Extremely.

PRIME MINISTER: You make a good point about the lag between real activity and recorded data and that is a, I mean I sympathise with you and I also sympathise with the people who are trying to put the data together. It’s very difficult because you have inevitable lags. And the other problem is that the Australian economy has been performing over the last five years, it’s been performing very strongly if you look at the whole national picture, but that is really made up of some areas that have been going gangbusters and other areas that have been not going very well at all and when you mix it all in you get a very strong national picture but in some areas it’s a lot weaker.

BARTLETT: All right Mark, thanks for your call this morning. Hello Gary.

CALLER: Yes, good morning. I have three quick ones if I can Mr Prime Minister. Number one, world parity prices, how come we always have to pay it and America doesn’t? And number two, I was employed for thirty years and have paid full tax all my life when I left school, I was recently made redundant and because my wife earns more than $19,000 and I’ve got no dependent children, I paid full tax all my life, full tax and I can’t claim a penny because my wife gets more than $19,000 and no dependent children and it’s pretty tough. And that was number two. Yes, that’s what I’d like … put yourself … oh and the third thing, the third thing, regardless of what government party I go for, I think you’re making a mistake at the moment in the fact that you’re too readily knock the opposition. I wouldn’t suggest to praise them but I think you should sit back and people get sick and tired of you just continually knocking the opposition. I know, as I say don’t praise them mate, but you know, don’t knock them.

PRIME MINISTER: Well can I take that first. I don’t think I’ve spent much time knocking the opposition in this interview and of course when it comes to knocking your opponent, I think our opponents, that’s basically all they’ve done for the last five years. But anyway, look your point is valid, I think you’ve got a mix … you’re entitled to, I mean I would be very negligent to my political obligations if I didn’t criticise my opponents because in a sense if you never criticise them some people might think you think they’re an acceptable alternative and I don’t. But moving onto your other questions, well the Americans of course, their petrol is cheaper but they have a different taxation regime and of course they have a far greater consumption problem with fuel over there and they’re even feeling the squeeze very, very much. The reason we brought in world parity pricing is that it has encouraged exploration for fuel in this country and one of the reasons why we have a high level of self-sufficiency is that we’ve always given companies an incentive, offering them the world price, to look for more oil. Now the point about your wife earning more than I think $19,000 a year and you’re not able to get the unemployment benefit – is that, is that, was that the point you made?

CALLER: That was the point yes.

PRIME MINISTER: Yes. Well the view’s been taken by governments of both political persuasions over the years that if two people are living together, either married or de facto and one of them has an income then the other’s not entitled to the unemployment benefit where there are no children. That view’s taken that it’s reasonable that the one that is in work makes some contribution to the support and maintenance of the other if their income is over a certain level. I mean I guess in an ideal world you might argue that that’s unfair but governments of both sides have taken the view that that’s a fair point at which to say well the husband or wife in work should make a contribution in support of the one who is not in work.

BARTLETT: All right Prime Minister.

PRIME MINISTER: If there were no children involved.

BARTLETT: We’ll leave it there. We know you’re a busy man. Thank you very much for your time to speak to Western Australia this morning.

PRIME MINISTER: Okay.

BARTLETT: Appreciate it.

END