TRANSCRIPT OF THE PRIME MINISTER
THE HON JOHN HOWARD MP
TELEVISION INTERVIEW WTIH FRAN KELLY, 7:30 REPORT
27 August 2001
FRAN KELLY:
Prime Minister, welcome to the program.
PRIME MINISTER:
Good to be here, Fran.
FRAN KELLY:
Mr Howard, you said today that we cannot allow Australia to be seen around the world as a country of easy destination -- that we're not an easy touch.
Will we, and can we, be more forceful about turning boats away in the future, and is this the start of a new policy?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, what we've done with this Norwegian vessel is against the background of the particular circumstances. Under international law, this vessel, having picked up some 400 to 500 souls from a becalmed or perhaps sinking vessel, had an obligation to take those people to the nearest port of possible disembarkation, and that was an Indonesian port, and we've taken the view, after taking a lot of advice, that it is not appropriate to allow that vessel to enter Australian waters, that it will not be given permission to land either at Christmas Island or somewhere else in Australia.This is, on our advice, a matter for Indonesia and Norway to resolve.We have been in touch with both governments.
It is a difficult issue, this whole issue is very difficult.
FRAN KELLY:
But this is, in a sense, a one-off, is what you're saying?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, there are particular circumstances. I'm not going to say it is a one-off, but I'm not going to go further than deal with the issue in the context of the particular circumstances. The Government and the Minister in particular, who I think has done a magnificent job -- Philip Ruddock -- in this whole area, we are a decent generous, compassionate humanitarian country, but we also have an absolute right to decide who comes to this country, and there is a concern inside the Government, and I suspect in the broader community, that we are fast reaching a stage where we are losing that right because of the increasing numbers of people, illegal immigrants, who are coming to Australia. They are coming because it is seen as easy to get to this country. One of the reasons is that our legislation is not tough enough because we haven't been able to get –
FRAN KELLY:
We have made quite a few legislative changes in the last few years –
PRIME MINISTER:
Yeah, but we could have done more.
FRAN KELLY:
And the torrent of people coming is not slowed.
PRIME MINISTER:
Fran, If we had got other legislation through, if it had not been blocked by the Labor Party in the Senate, I think we would have been able to send a stronger message. But they will have an opportunity in the next couple of weeks to change their position and let some of that legislation through.
FRAN KELLY:
Mr Howard, just in terms of sending a stronger message, how strong are you prepared to be here? You've communicated the captain of the ship that he can't land in Australia on Australian territory. Late this afternoon he was still drifting off Christmas island, hadn't moved away.
What if he doesn't move. Will we engage the navy to persuade him?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, I'm not going to, at this stage, dealing with such a sensitive issue, I’m not going to hypothesise. I don't think it is responsible for me to do that. We are in discussion with the Norwegian authorities and with the Indonesians.
FRAN KELLY:
Have we heard any word back from them?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, there are exchanges going on. I don't, at this stage, wish to say more. We are making arrangements to get as quickly as we can any medical assistance that might be required. We are willing, and I made that clear earlier today, to get food and water and medical supplies to the people on the Norwegian vessel, and we are obviously concerned about the broader picture.
I mean we face the prospect in the next few days of up to 900 people coming in a wave. Now, there is undoubtedly a view around the world, amongst people smugglers, that it is easy to get into this country, that once you get here we have a legal process that allows you to, for a very long time, take advantage of legal procedures and legal processes and we are seeking to shorten the legal process so that we can give a sharper clarity to the way in which we deal with applications for refugee status.
And all of this is against the background of this being amongst one of the most generous countries in the world for taking refugees.
FRAN KELLY:
Well, let's just test that generosity. Because we do have an incident, if we can put it that way, right now, with this Norwegian ship off Christmas Island.
This afternoon the shipping company said that they were anchored near Christmas Island because some on board were ill with dysentery. The captain himself said that some of the asylum seekers threatened to jump overboard if he didn't turn towards Australia. What if they jumped?
Are these risks we're prepared to take here?
PRIME MINISTER:
This is part of the difficulty. And I choose my words carefully because it is an appalling human tragedy that people wander the world in search of a home. I understand that. But no country can surrender the right to decide who comes here and how they come here. We have an open non-discriminatory immigration policy, and obviously there are people who seek to exploit the generosity of Australia. And what we are trying to do, as we've done at all points, is to strike a balance between our decency and our generosity, but also making certain that if people come here on the basis of being refugees, they are compared with all other people who are seeking to come here on the basis of being refugees. I mean our stance is being supported through the international refugee organisations. They understand the dilemma that Australia faces.
FRAN KELLY:
In this particular incident, though, how firm can we be? What if Jakarta says "No, we can't turn them back here”.That's their sovereign right. What do we do then?
PRIME MINISTER:
Fran, it is clearly not in the interests of Australia that I, on your program, or indeed on any program, start hypothesising as to what our responses are.
We are in discussions with the Indonesians. A key to this problem lies in reaching an understanding with Indonesia, because the great bulk of the people who come here as illegal immigrants come through Indonesia. And, clearly, if we can get closer to the Indonesians, if we can emphasise the urgency and the concern we have, and I have to say that we are reaching a situation where our capacity physically, through detention facilities and otherwise, without massive additional expenditure to erect new facilities, that capacity is reaching the ceiling, it is reaching breaking point. That is in part because we are seen around the world as having a legal system and a procedure which is easier and more open to exploitation than that of many other countries.
FRAN KELLY:
Mr Howard, if we could move on to a matter that consumed question time today, the issue of the Queensland Liberals. Employing a scheme designed to save local branches paying the GST. You've said that it's a non-issue. How is it a non-issue to discover that your Small Business Minister, not to mention the president and executive director of your Queensland branch were going along with the scheme, which Ian Macfarlane has now conceded was non compliant with your tax legislation. That is an issue, isn't it?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, Ian gave a very detailed statement in the House. I mean the claim made against Ian was that he misled the House.
FRAN KELLY:
But he said today he that he did this, he followed this and was relaxed about it, because it was made on the advice of the President.
PRIME MINISTER:
You've got to understand that members of Parliament, whether it is Liberal or Labor, they have people who run fundraisers and everything. They don't get involved in the detail of that. Look, could we just cut to the chase? In this particular case, on the information available, the GST was in fact paid. The short -- hang on.
FRAN KELLY:
But there was a scheme designed to save the local branch that GST.
PRIME MINISTER:
You keep using this word 'scam'.
FRAN KELLY:
'Scheme', I said.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well, other people have used 'scam'. You might have used 'scheme', but could I just finish my answer? The amount that was originally underpaid was $76, and I understand - once again on advice, because I don't know of the details of it until the thing came up last week - that that was then subsequently gathered up in another Business Activity Statement of the Queensland Division.
But look, what I've done with the Queensland Division is I've asked the Tax Commissioner to carry out a full audit of its compliance with the goods and services tax legislation since 1 July last year. You can't be more transparent than that. And what's more, I've said that when that audit is completed, it should be made public. So, you know, how much more transparent can you possibly be?
FRAN KELLY:
I think transparency is the issue, Prime Minister.
Thank you very much for your time tonight.
PRIME MINISTER:
And we are very transparent.
FRAN KELLY:
Thanks for joining us.
PRIME MINISTER:
Pleasure.
END
