TRANSCRIPT OF THE PRIME MINISTER
THE HON JOHN HOWARD MP
INTERVIEW WITH JEREMY CORDEAUX,
5DN

28 March 2001

CORDEAUX: Prime Minister of Australia, John Howard, good morning

PRIME MINISTER: Good morning Jeremy, nice to be back.

CORDEAUX: Great to have you back. Just when we thought we had this wretched railroad in the bag after, what is it, nearly a hundred years, we have more trouble this morning.

PRIME MINISTER: Yes this is in relation to the $26 million further contribution from South Australia. The Federal Government said several weeks ago that it will put up its $26 million and the Northern Territory Government has done the same. My understanding is that the private sector arrangement has fallen through but the Premier is now negotiating an understanding whereby the Government or agencies of the South Australian Government will pick up the remaining $26 million. Now that’s fair. I understand and support the efforts that John Olsen has made to get a private sector stand in rather than a direct Government contribution but if that doesn’t prove feasible I know that he will want to support it.
I’m still a strong supporter of this project. It does involve considerable Government help. But it’s one of those long term visionary things, if you like that the country will benefit from in the years ahead. Darwin will become a great port into Asia. And it is very important to the northern development of this country that we have that railway. It will be very beneficial to the steel industry in Whyalla. It will generate hundreds of jobs during the construction phase. Now these are steelworkers jobs, and that’s very very important. I mean lets just understand in the end that what Governments are about is generating jobs and if you can provide 18 months work for the steel workers of Whyalla, isn’t that good news. And I would hope that people in the South Australian Parliament will put their political differences aside on this and I particularly appeal to the Labor Party to support it. I mean you’ve got a lot of your traditional supporters are steelworkers, give them a break.

CORDEAUX: I had one listener this morning suggest that we should revisit the original agreement of 1904, or when ever it was.

PRIME MINISTER: I don’t remember that one very much. I wasn’t around then.

CORDEAUX: (inaudible) consensus of opinion is that the Federal Government dudded us on that. But anyway.

PRIME MINISTER: Well this Federal Government hasn’t dudded South Australia or the Northern Territory on this. I mean, we are the first Federal Government to really be serious about this and I’ve been very forthright in my support for this project because I believe in it and there are occasions when Governments have got to say this is something that we believe will be of long term benefit. It will involve a tax payer cost up front but there will be a medium and longer term return. And I think this is… the Darwin to Alice Springs railway is one such project and that’s why I’ve always strongly supported it.

CORDEAUX: Apart from the people who are planning to make money out of more gambling, as if we need more gambling, many people I would imagine support your ban on internet gambling sites.

PRIME MINISTER: Well, Jeremy, we have too much gambling in this country already.

CORDEAUX: Absolutely.

PRIME MINISTER: Far too much. I’m a realist to know, and I’m sure your listeners are realistic enough to know that it’s next to impossible to turn back what we’ve already got. But you can do something to stop it spreading. That’s the rationale behind what we’re doing. And people can say it’s hypocritical, they can say well why don’t you ban poker machines, etc etc. But at the end of the day, what you’ve got to try and do is to the limit of your capacity prevent gambling spreading. It’s very hard to turn it back, people have built lives, economic futures and everything on, and made investments on the basis of the existing facilities. So to try and turn them back is very hard. I mean are our Labor opponents saying that they would support a situation that ban what we intend to ban providing we ban a whole lot of other things that are already there. I mean they’re not seriously saying that they believe that. They know that that is impractical. You can’t implement that. What you can implement is a prohibition on the further expansion on gambling opportunities and that will reduce potential further family misery and break down. That is why I am very strongly in favour of it and I appeal to the minority parties in the Senate to support us. I welcome the comments already made by the Democrats Senator John Woodley from Queensland. I hope other Democrats agree with him and I just simply say to the Labor Party be it on your head if you oppose something that will prevent the spread of more misery for families whose mothers or fathers or both are addicted to gambling.

CORDEAUX: Speaking of misery and family breakdown and things, I guess in your heart you could spend that $20 million that you’ve earmarked for this latest drug initiative. You could spend that on a thousand other things if you could, it seems like a lot of money but the drug problem is just simply not going away is it?

PRIME MINISTER: No it’s not going away but once again if you don’t do anything it could get much worse and by doing something you are making an impact. We are making some progress in regards to heroin and cocaine seizures. This programme I launched on Sunday will, I’m sure, encourage some parents who are now not doing it to talk to their children about the dangers of drug taking. It’s particularly important when children are 10, 11, 12 or 13 at the age where there is first the danger that they will start coming into contact and it gets even more danger as they get a little older. And what this campaign is designed to do is to encourage parents to talk to their children and whatever may be the cynicism about that, our research shows that 70% of children will be influenced by their parents in relation to their behaviour and if we can make a difference, if we can awaken some more parents to be more active to the encouraging their children, engaging them in discussion, doing it in the right way. It’s not always easy, I know as a parent, communication on sensitive issues is always difficult but you’ve got to keep trying. And if you have a good relationship with your children you can insinuate and introduce these subjects into discussions with them and it can make a difference, providing you are upfront, you’re knowledgeable about it and this booklet contains a lot of information about the impact of different drugs, the street names of the drugs. Reading it will be an education to some parents, it won’t be an education to others. They will be very familiar with the terms.

CORDEAUX: Many people regard it as being a war. But a phoney war that we’re waging against drugs. And if we were really fair dinkum, if we were really serious about it we’d take a leaf out of the book of say Singapore and we would have an absolute zero tolerance, particularly for the drug pushers. In fact we could reintroduce the death penalty for certain things like drug pushing over a certain quantity of drugs on the streets.

PRIME MINISTER: Well, I’d say about that that we do have a pretty well close to a zero tolerance attitude towards pushers. We don’t have a death penalty in this country, there’s a lot of debate as to whether we should or shouldn’t. I’ve never really favoured the death penalty myself because I recognise the law to make mistakes. And if you’ve executed somebody you can’t repair the error. But as far as the rest of it’s concerned, Singapore is a different culture from Australia and certain things that you can do in a country like Singapore that you can’t do in Australia and there are advantages in not being to strict a community. Australia is not an authoritarian country and we have to recognise the different culture. But there’s a lot of support for our Tough on Drugs Strategy and most people agree that there are three things to it - you’ve got to educate children, persuade them not to start, you’ve got to have tough law enforcement and people who have got a drug problem, you’ve got to give the rehabilitation facilities. And the federal government’s extra $500 million is focused in those three areas.

CORDEAUX: Prime Minister will you take some calls?

PRIME MINISTER: Certainly.

CORDEAUX: Chris hello.

CALLER: Good morning, how’s everyone?

CORDEAUX: Everyone’s fine. You’re talking to the Prime Minister.

CALLER: Good morning Mr Prime Minister. Just if I can say what I want to say. On the death penalty it can be implied or put into practice beyond any doubt if proven guilty, which is quite possible because it has happened. You know you can bring in the death penalty. Beyond reasonable doubt I agree with you, you can’t bring someone back from the dead. But beyond any doubt, well see you later. Anyway my point today is on morals. Where have they gone? And I’m talking about across the board, through the system, through the Government, family, police, Government, schools, parents (inaudible), children’s responsibilities. Every aspect of society the morals have gone down the toilet. Our Christian morals, where have they gone? Are we supposed to be a Christian country and this is the question I want you to answer John. We are in a Christian society, only it’s happened here today over the past 10 years. A kindergarten with 40 children and it’s here in Adelaide, one of the children is a Muslin and one is a Jew, but because they are not Christian the whole kindergarten misses out on all the Christmas stuff that happens in the kindergarten in regards to Christmas tree etcetera, and the same with Easter.

CORDEAUX: Alright Chris, let me get the Prime Minister.

PRIME MINISTER: Well can I just take those in reverse order. I think it is strange that you don’t have a Christian observance because not everybody in the class is a Christian. In a Muslim country you don’t stop having Muslim observances because not everybody is not a Muslim, I think that is carrying political correctness too far and I agree with the caller and I’m always amazed when I hear that that sort of thing occurs and it is not something I would support or encourage. I think it is quite ridiculous. On the other hand you’re too pessimistic about today’s morality, different people have different views and we can have an endless debate. But there’s a lot of basic decency and goodness and morality in today’s society. There may be different attitudes on certain things, I’m not as pessimistic as you. The question of whether this is a Christian country or not is really a matter for individual viewpoints. Personally I’m heavily influenced! by a Christian upbringing and the values that that gave me. But I don’t seek to force that down other people’s throats and I respect differences. We are a community that is very tolerate of a range of views but if you look at the laws and customs of this country they’re still very heavily influenced by the Judaeo-Christian ethic. But it is very much a personal thing and I’ve always taken the view that religious belief is something inside you and it is a very personal thing not something that you’d seek to ram down the throats of other people.

CORDEAUX: James, you’re with the Prime Minister.

CALLER: Good morning gentlemen, how are you? Hello?

PRIME MINISTER: Yes James.

CALLER: Yes good morning. Jeremy bought up a question this morning, we were talking about Parramatta with the terrible drugs thing that’s going on there. The suggestion was why the hell couldn’t we get the army in, sort of the crack team where they can clear these idiots and make this not as bad for the whole thing. I know it’s in our constitution, I’m fairly certain it’s in our Constitution, we can’t use Army and things like that but surely lets use something like Cosgrove that’s done so well that can organise something like that and clear this damn thing out once and for all.

PRIME MINISTER: Well you can’t use the Army for criminal activities. The Army is there for the defence of Australia against attack and for use in national emergencies. You can use police forces very effectively. I don’t think there’s any one simple solution using all the force available in the country to cure the drug problem, you need a combination of things. You do need to give the police effective powers, you do need to put resources into the sort of things I was talking about earlier. I don’t really think the solution is to put the Army in, I really don’t. I think it would compromise the Army, the armed forces are there for the defence of the country, the police are the people who deal with criminal behaviour.

CORDEAUX: Prime Minister just speaking about the Australian Defence Forces, will you be sending the producers of Survivor II a bill for $300,000 for flying the cast and crew up there for the show? Have you heard about that?

PRIME MINISTER: Well I’ve heard some reference, but I’ve only just heard some reference to it. I must say I haven’t given any thought to that. I will get some advice on that, I’m not going to say yes or no to that.

CORDEAUX: Must get up your nose a little bit though, but anyway.

PRIME MINISTER: Well I understand your point.

CORDEAUX: Rex.

CALLER: Yes.

CORDEAUX: Go right ahead Rex.

PRIME MINISTER: Yes Rex.

CALLER: Mr Howard?

PRIME MINISTER: Yes?

CALLER: This is regarding the MPs that are going out, you know on exorbitant pay-outs and one thing or another and superannuation for the rest of their lives. What I would like to know are these politicians taxed on their superannuation?

PRIME MINISTER: Yes.

CALLER: They are?

PRIME MINISTER: Well if you get a, they are taxed exactly the same way as anybody else.

CALLER: No well I’m on superannuation…

PRIME MINISTER: If you get a pension, if you get your super through a pension they get taxed on that. And they take some of it in a lump sum that lump sum gets taxed in the way that any other lump sum gets taxed and the rest of the pension gets taxed in the same way.

CALLER: Yeah well what I was getting at was that, I’m on a superannuation pension and I get taxed on that.

PRIME MINISTER: Yes. So do they.

CALLER: Yeah well that’s okay then because I think if it’s good enough for one…

PRIME MINISTER: No, no, no. look I take your point and that’s a very fair point but you get taxed in exactly the same way.

CORDEAUX: Many people would like to see the politician perhaps taking the superannuation that’s available to us, or we take the superannuation benefits or flexibility that are available for politicians. If Bill O’Chee for example came back would he be able to (inaudible) all over again?

PRIME MINISTER: Well if he comes back into parliament he loses his pension.

CORDEAUX: Right, okay.

PRIME MINISTER: We’re talking to the Prime Minister. George hi.

CALLER: Yes good morning gentlemen. Mr Howard the buck stops with you in regards to things within this Government that…

PRIME MINISTER: It stops with me with everything.

CALLER: Stops with you with everything. Well if you want to…

PRIME MINISTER: Even the things for which I’m not responsible.

CALLER: In regards to the drugs situation…

PRIME MINISTER: The other day the MIR splashdown was due to the GST.

CALLER: Right. Well in regards to the drugs situation, if you wish to do something about it, you’d like to do something to help the Australian public there is no reason why you can’t. Or is it plain and simple the Government will benefit in some way, shape or form in regards to this activity, otherwise you would do something about it. Plain and simple.

PRIME MINISTER: Well that’s an assertion you make, I don’t agree with it. There is no Government benefit in people dying from heroin overdoses, that’s, with great respect that’s a ridiculous thing to say.

CORDEAUX: If we make you dictator instead of Prime Minister…

PRIME MINISTER: Well nobody will me make me dictator and I don’t want to be a dictator. I don’t. Would I handle things any differently? I would…there are some things that you would perhaps, if I had unlimited money, which I don’t, because it belongs to you and your listeners.

CORDEAUX: Well if you had unlimited power?

PRIME MINISTER: Well even if you had unlimited power I don’t know that the direction of the campaign that we’re running would be markedly different, you might put even more resources into it. But within the limits of the resources we have and the other priorities we are committed to we have dramatically increased the resources.

CORDEAUX: Prime Minister there’s a story running around this morning that says that the Federal Government has attempted to link its cut in fuel excise with a price rise for beer.

PRIME MINISTER: I saw that story, look that is quite ridiculous. Can I make it very clear that the cut in petrol excise is going ahead come what may. Can I say that again, the cut in petrol excise is going ahead. It has gone ahead, it has been implemented and it will be validated by law as will the abolition of half yearly indexation of petrol excise. What has happened is that we have put all of these measures in the same bill. Now we often do that if the measures are being put forward at the same time, it makes sense to put them in the same bill. There’s no trick, there’s no attempt to say well look if you don’t validate the beer increase then you won’t get the petrol cut. I mean that is just absolute mischief. I know I’ve seen it in a couple of papers and it’s wrong.

CORDEAUX: Quick question on the GST. Are you happy that the bureaucrats are doing everything they can to simplify the procedure, the process or can we go further? I mean election year…

PRIME MINISTER: Well I am open to further refinements of implementation but I believe the changes that are being made to the BAS forms in which I and the Treasurer were deeply involved in were very good.

CORDEAUX: Clare…

PRIME MINISTER: And we’ll keep following it very closely.

CORDEAUX: Alright. Three minutes to nine is the time. Clare good morning.

CALLER: Oh good morning to you Jeremy and good morning Mr Howard.

PRIME MINISTER: Hello Clare.

CALLER: Hello. I’m ringing up about the GST. This week I had just paid my electricity bill, the AGL. My concession on that was $19.41, your GST was $12.20. That reduces my concession to $7.21. The GST has almost wiped out the concession and that goes on and on the list, there’s telephone, there’s my car insurance, my house insurance. It’s an absolutely fallacy to say that people aren’t any worse off, pensioners are a lot worse off.

PRIME MINISTER: Well I can only make a judgment on that in your case if I know your other financial details. And I don’t know, unless I know that you rely entirely on the pension …

CALLER: Well I mean in any case I am a pensioner.

PRIME MINISTER: No, no but I mean you’ve asked me, I am trying to be fair. I acknowledge that the GST has increased your electricity bill and I accept that and we’ve never tried to hide that …

CALLER: ….wiped out my concession.

PRIME MINISTER: Yes but it’s not a question of just looking at its impact on the concessions, it’s a question of looking at your other benefits. You would have got a pension increase. If you have other income you may well have enjoyed a tax cut, I don’t know. You may well have got the benefit of part or whole of the savings bonus, I don’t know. So unless I know all of your financial circumstances, I can’t be expected to accept the statement well you’re worse off. I mean you’re only worse off if the net effect of all of the elements of the taxation package have left you worse off, you can’t just quote one part of it to me and say ‘look because my electricity has gone up therefore I am definitely and conclusively worse off’. You’re only definitely and conclusively worse off if the aggregate of all of those increases is greater than the aggregate of the benefits you received under the tax package.

CORDEAUX: Clare, thank you for that. We’ve got about 45 seconds Prime Minister. Did you see the little piece which suggests that Bob Brown, the Greens’ Senator would like you to run around and turn the 500 television sets off every night to help with greenhouse emissions, did you see that?

PRIME MINISTER: No but it sounds very much like Senator Brown.

CORDEAUX: All right, one day when you don’t have all that much to do. Prime Minister thanks so much for talking with us.

PRIME MINISTER: Thank you.

END